|
宣化三藏（亦名安慈，度輪）出生於農曆1918年三月十六日。父親白富海，是中國東北雙城縣的農民。上人在八個子女中最小。第二次世界大戰之後，上人跋涉三千英里，去廣東南華寺，拜訪109歲高齡的虛雲老和尚。到南華寺之後，兩位大師相互問候。虛雲老和尚認可了上人的成就，將微妙的心法傳給他，使他成為溈仰宗第九祖。虛雲老和尚還請他擔任南華寺律學院的主任。
1950年他辭去了南華寺的所有職務，來到香港，住在新界的一個山洞裡。他親自創建了兩座廟宇，一個講堂，還贊助了許多寺院的建設。因為他的精進、歸依三寶儀式的莊重、對弘揚佛法的盡力，在居住香港的12年期間，許多人受到了感化。
1962年，他在美西樹立法幢。他住在三藩市耐心地等待往昔因緣的成熟。在西方，上人不知疲倦，善巧地播下了法種，使佛法自身能生根發芽。位於三藩市的金山寺，就是法師創立的。下面的訪問，就是在金山寺進行的。
Karl Ray：第一個問題，是關於您在文章中提到的，佛教應該放棄宗派界限。佛教組織在實際上應如何行動呢？
上人：佛出世之前，沒有佛教；佛出世之後，有了佛教，但還沒有宗派。宗派主義是狹小的見解，它不能代表佛教全體；佛教的全體，不承認這種割裂。若將全體佛教分成宗派，佛教就支離破碎；為了明白全體佛教，你就必須掃除宗派觀念，回到原本的佛教，一定要返本還原。
Karl Ray：這使我想到在金山寺的不同教授內容。我知道有五宗，禪、教、律、密，還有淨土。它們像這樣放在一起教授可以嗎？它們是否都屬於原本的佛教？
上人：五宗都是沒事找事的佛教徒造出來的。五宗都出自佛教。因為出自佛教，它們也就可以回歸佛教。雖然五宗的功用不同，可是最終的目標是一樣的，所謂「歸元無二路，方便有多門。」
雖然有五宗，它們屬於一個佛教。若要明白全體佛教，你不必將它分成宗派。本來沒有這種分別。沒有又何必去找麻煩？為什麼要去分裂，使已經有很多煩惱的人們再增添煩惱呢？
人們以為五宗很奇妙。其實五宗從未離開佛教本身。好像國家的政府。政府有不同部門。有衛生部、財政部、國務院、內政部等等。人們不明白不同的部門，都屬於同一個政府；他們只認識部門，不認識政府全體，被外表所誤導。現在我們要捨末逐本。類似的，政府是本，不同部門是枝末，人們不應捨本逐末。如果你只見到一個個部門，而見不到政府；那你就永遠看不到整個國家所遇到的問題，根本不知道那是怎麼回事。
Karl Ray：那人們是否可以自由選擇去遵循部份或全體佛法呢？
上人：當然，宗教不應當來約束人。
Karl Ray：如果有人選擇某一宗來修持，他能達到各宗的共同目標嗎？
上人：條條大路通羅馬、條條大路通三藩市、條條大路通紐約。你會問：「走這條路能到紐約嗎？」但你應該問自己：「我要不要走這條路？」
Karl Ray：您說佛教各宗的目標都相同。這個目標是甚麼?
上人：最終是回到無所得的境界。修到再沒有路，你停止下來，不再前進。
Karl Ray：甚麼是苦行?
（苦行：佛說了十二種有益的苦行。比如，不倒單，日中一食，三衣，午後不飲漿等等。更泛泛的講法是修定，持戒等等。）
上人：苦行就是人們所不喜歡，不願意行的。你知道，這也是你不來這兒修行的原因。
Karl Ray：因為我不想這樣。
上人：因為你怕！
Karl Ray：可是我還不知道甚麼是苦行！
上人：泛泛的講，苦行，就是人們所不願忍受的。這也是你不想修苦行的原因。
Karl Ray：在我們的日常生活中，是否可能就有許多苦行呢？雖然不願意，可是我們還是選擇去做？
上人：你去做，卻不察覺。我們現在談的苦行是明顯，人人可見的。沒人看得見人們內心面臨的困境，人們雖然不願意承受，但還是被迫向前。人人可見的，適合於人們修的外在的苦行，正是多數人所不願意行的。我常說：「受苦是了苦，享福是消福。」
Karl Ray：我不明白個人的苦，和他人的苦之間的關係。修苦行，能使他人的苦減輕嗎？
上人：是的，這種情況下，有這種關係。
Karl Ray：這是否只是出家人的行持？
上人：人人可行。
Karl Ray：我想請教一下淨土的問題。我覺得在西方佛教，與東方不同，這一宗最受人忽視。淨土中指的天堂是否與基督教中的的天堂類似？
上人：根本上講，既沒有天堂，也沒有淨土。人們想像有天堂，就有天堂；想像有淨土，就有淨土。佛說淨土法門，是要你去除妄想，證到純淨本有的妙真如性，到究竟處；當你沒有妄想迷惑時，就到了淨土。誰能去除妄想，他就能到極樂淨土；做不到的，就仍然在五濁惡世。天堂也同樣，我們想像天堂有多美妙，這只是根據我們所聽到的。我們也是根據佛的開示，來想像淨土；除了想像之外，我們尚未親自見到淨土。在我看來，開示淨土法門，只是為了要我們清淨內心，這就是淨土。如果沒有迷惑，這就是天堂；若向外求，這只是你的貪心而已。
Karl Ray：這是我聽到過的，對淨土最漂亮的定義。
上人：可是這是最糟的解釋。
Karl Ray：它似乎是最合理的。
上人：真正好的解釋是給不出的。如果有好的解釋，也沒辦法向你表達。可以講出的，都不是究竟的。能解釋的，就都還沒到家。我也沒聽到過好的解釋。（笑）
Karl Ray：換言之，在這個對淨土的解釋中，完全去除了常聽到的所謂「他力」。
上人：「他力」就是彌陀的力量，「自力」是你念阿彌陀佛的力量。你借著阿彌陀佛的願力，到極樂淨土。雖然是靠阿彌陀佛的願力，可是阿彌陀佛的願力，和我們每個人的願力，是相同的，是同一類的。若能清淨內心，就能和彌陀合一，極樂就在目前；尤其重要的，是斷除一切欲念。所有的欲念，都要斷除，達到無念的境界；若能斷除一切淫慾，沒有貪嗔癡，那阿彌陀佛的力量，就是你的力量。它們「二而不二，不二而二。」基本上沒有分別。可是眾生沒事時，卻一定要找事來做，就是這樣。
Karl Ray：這個解釋，和密宗用淫慾來修道是否矛盾？是否這兩條路只能選一條，或可以並行不悖？
上人：沒有矛盾。修密宗如果沒有淫慾，就可以；但如果有，那他與凡夫無別。
Karl Ray：換言之，修密宗也要去除淫慾？
上人：一定的，不能有淫念。如果有，那你與凡夫無別，就會和旁人一樣有小孩子。這是一定的。
Karl Ray：沒有欲念執著，也會有小孩子嗎？
上人：要當木頭，木頭沒有執著。
Karl Ray：可是木頭沒有小孩子，不是嗎？
上人：修密宗既不能當木頭，又不能有欲念，其實不容易。因為困難，所以很危險。可是許多人喜歡它，用它來掩飾自己心中的矛盾。
Karl Ray：這涉及另一個「師徒關係」的問題。沒有師父或印度人說的「上師」，是否也可以修行佛法？
上人：時間會久一些。
Karl Ray：但不是不可能。
上人：要看個人的根性。
Karl Ray：您對美國佛教的前景怎麼看？
上人：佛教如同種子，在亞洲已經不存在了，種子到了西方。在西方，當然同樣會紮根生長；長大之後，最終在西方，也同樣會逝去。它接著又會從這裡，到另外的世界，這是佛法的自然趨向。五百年或一千年後會這樣，要多少時間，是不一定的，佛教或許會到月亮上去。
Karl Ray：我正要問，您所說的是「另外的世界」，而不是另一個國家。您是這個意思嗎？
上人：是的，是的。
Karl Ray：我想，現在可以不再打擾您了。
上人：你要讓我解脫了，可是我是在讓你解脫啊！（笑）
Karl Ray：謝謝！我的問題很愚癡。
上人：是問題愚癡，還是回答愚癡？
Karl Ray：是問題愚癡。
上人：愚癡和智慧，根本上是相同的。將愚癡轉過來，就是智慧；就如同手心、手背，將它反過來，就得到了。如果有興趣，隨時都可以預約時間來討論。
Karl Ray：謝謝！或許你可以幫助我不要怕苦行。
上人：那容易！
|
|
Tripitaka Master Hsuan Hua (also named An Tz’u and To Lun) was born on the sixteenth day of the third month, lunar calendar, in 1918. His father, Pai Fu-hai, was a farmer of the Shuang-ch’eng District of northeastern China. The Master was the youngest of eight children. After the Second World War the Master traveled three thousand miles to Nan Hua Monastery in Canton Province to pay his respects to the Venerable Master Hsu Yun, who was then one hundred and nine years old. When he arrived at Nan Hua, the two masters greeted one another; the Venerable Master Hsu Yun recognized the Master’s attainment, and transmitted the wonderful mind seal to him, making him the Ninth Patriarch of the Wei Yang lineage, and asked him to serve as the Director of the Nan Hua Institute for the Study of the Vinaya.
In 1950, he resigned his post at Nan Hua Monastery and journeyed to Hong Kong where he lived in a mountainside cave in the New Territories. He personally established two temples and a lecture hall and helped to bring about the construction of many others. He dwelt in Hong Kong for twelve years, during which time many people were influenced by his arduous cultivation and awesome manner to take refuge with the Triple Jewel and support the propagation of the Buddhadharma.
In 1962, he carried the Buddha’s Dharma banner farther west to the shores of America where he took up residence in San Francisco and patiently waited for past causes to ripen and bear their fruit. With tireless vigor the Master has finely planted the roots of Dharma in Western soil so that it can become self-perpetuating. The following interview was conducted at Gold Mountain Monastery, San Francisco, which was founded by the Master.
Karl Ray: The first question I would like to ask is based on an article in which you suggest that Buddhists forget sectarian lines. Can you suggest practical steps that Buddhist organizations can take to bring this about?
The Master: Before the Buddha came into the world, there was no Buddhism. After the Buddha appeared, Buddhism came into being, but there was not as yet any division into sects or schools. Sectarianism is a limited view, a view of small scope, and cannot represent Buddhism in its entirety. The complete substance of Buddhism, the totality, admits no such divisions. When you divide the totality of Buddhism into sects and schools, you merely split it into fragments. In order to understand Buddhism in its totality, one must eliminate views of sects and schools and return to original Buddhism. One must return to the root and go back to the source.
Karl Ray: That brings me to a question about the different teachings taught here at Gold Mountain. I understand that you teach five different schools, including the Chan School, the Teaching School, the Vinaya School, the Secret School, and the Pure Land School. Can they all be taught like this together? Do they all belong to the original corpus of Buddhist teachings?
The Master: The Five Schools were created by Buddhist disciples who had nothing to do and wanted to find something with which to occupy their time. The Five Schools all issued from Buddhism. Since they came forth from Buddhism, they can return to Buddhism as well. Although the Five Schools serve different purposes, their ultimate destination is the same. It is said:
There is only one road back to the source,
But there are many expedient ways to reach it.
Although there are five different schools, they are still included within one “Buddhism.” If you want to understand the totality of Buddhism, you need not necessarily divide it up into schools or sects. Originally there were no such divisions. Why makes trouble when there is none? Why be divisive and cause people to have even more false thoughts than they already have?
People think that the Five Schools are something really special and wonderful. In fact, they have never departed from Buddhism itself. It’s just like the government of a country. The government is made up of different departments. There’s a Department of Health, a Department of Economics, a State Department, a Department of the Interior, and so forth. People may not realize that all these different departments are under a single government. All they recognize is the department, and they don’t recognize the government as a whole. Their outlook is mistaken. Now, we wish to move from the branches back to the roots. In the analogy, the roots are the government, and the branches are the various departments. People should no abandon the roots and cling to the branches. If you only see the individual departments and fail to recognize the government, you will never be able to understand the problems faced by the country as a whole. You’ll have no idea what they are all about.
Karl Ray: Then one should feel free to pursue any or all of the teachings?
The Master: Of course. Religion shouldn’t be allowed to tie one up.
Karl Ray: And if one chooses to follow only one certain school, can one reach the goal that all of them aim for?
The Master: All roads lead to Rome. All roads come to San Francisco. All roads will take you to New York. You may ask, “Can I get to New York by this road?” but you would do better to ask yourself, “Will I walk that road or not?”
Karl Ray: You mentioned that the goal of Buddhism is the same for all schools. What is that goal?
The Master: The goal ultimately is to return to a place where there is “nothing to get.” You go to a place where there is no more road, and then you stop going. You go no further.
Karl Ray: What are bitter practices?*
[*k’u heng: the twelve beneficial ascetic practices recommended by the Buddha, e.g., sleeping sitting up, taking only one meal a day before noon, wearing only three layers of clothing, drinking only unadulterated water after the noon hour, etc. The more general ones are meditating, practicing the Vinaya, etc.]
The Master: Bitter practices are just what people don’t like, what they don’t want to do. That’s why you don’t come here and practice them, you’ll notice.
Karl Ray: Because I don’t want to?
The Master: Because you are afraid!
Karl Ray: But I don’t know what they are yet!
The Master: Bitter practices, in general, are those which people are not willing to endure. That’s why you don’t want to practice them, either.
Karl Ray: Is it not possible that in ordinary life, in life as we are living it in our everyday world, that there are many things that are bitter practices, that we choose to do even though we don’t want to?
The Master: If you are involved in them, you won’t realize it. The bitter practices we are discussing now are ones which are visible and which everyone can see. No one can see the internal hardships people face, and although they don’t want to undergo them, they are forced to do so anyway. The external practices that everyone can see and that are suitable to undertake are those which most people do not wish to endure. I often say,
To endure suffering is to end suffering;
To enjoy blessings is to exhaust one’s blessings.
Karl Ray: I’m not sure I understand the relationship between an individual’s suffering and the suffering of others. Does taking on bitter practices relieve the suffering of others?
The Master: There is such a relationship in that circumstance, yes.
Karl Ray: Are these practices for everyone or only for monks?
The Master: Everybody can practice them.
Karl Ray: I’d like to ask something about the Pure Land because it seems to me to be one of the most neglected aspects of Buddhism in the West, unlike in the East. The question is, is the heaven in the Pure land—if I am correct in using the term—similar to the Christian heaven?
The Master: Fundamentally there is no heaven and there is no Pure Land. People imagine a heaven and a heaven exists. They imagine the existence of a Pure Land and a Pure Land exists. The Pure Land Dharma door was spoken by the Buddha in order to teach you to do away with your false thoughts. It is intended to lead you to a realization of the pure, inherently wonderful True Suchness nature. At the ultimate point, when you have no false thoughts or confused ideas, you arrive at the Pure Land. Whoever can do away with their false thoughts can reach the Land of Ultimate Bliss. Whoever cannot do that is still in the Evil World of the Five Turbidities. So, heaven is the same. We imagine how fine and wonderful heaven must be, but only on the basis of what we have heard. We also imagine the Pure Land to be as the Buddha said it was. We haven’t yet seen it ourselves, except in our imaginations. As I see it, the Pure Land Dharma-door is taught only for the sake of causing you to purify your mind. That is the Pure Land. If your mind has no confused ideas, that is heaven. If you look for it elsewhere, you only show your greed.
Karl Ray: That’s one of the most beautiful definitions I‘ve ever heard of the Pure Land.
The Master: But it’s the worst explanation ever given!
Karl Ray: It seems the most sensible.
The Master: The really good explanation is impossible to give. If it were a really good explanation, there’d be no way to convey it to you. Anything that can be said is not ultimate. If it can be explained, it doesn’t “have it.” I’ve never heard as good a one either. (Laughter)
Karl Ray: In other words, what is eliminated in this definition of the Pure Land is what has so often been ascribed to it as “otherworldly power.”
The Master: “Other-power” (t’a li) just refers to the power of Amitabha Buddha. “Self-power” (tse li) refers to your own ability to recite the name of Amitabha Buddha. Using “vow-power” you borrow the power of Amitabha Buddha’s vows to escort you to the Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss. This comes from relying on the power of Amitabha Buddha’s vows, but the vow-power of Amitabha Buddha and the vow-power of every individual is just the same; it is of one kind. If you can purify your mind, then you will become one with Amitabha Buddha. If you can purify your mind, the Land of Ultimate Bliss appears right in front of you. It is especially important that you cut off all desire. All your desirous thoughts, just cut them off so that you think of nothing whatsoever. If you can stop all thoughts of sexual desire, have no greedy, hateful, or ignorant thoughts, then Amitabha’s power is your power as well; they are two and yet not two; not two and yet two.
Basically, there is no distinction, but living beings have to find something to do where there is nothing to be done, that’s all.
Karl Ray: Does not this explanation of the Pure Land conflict with the tantric practices of using sexual powers? Are they two different ways that one must choose between, or can they be practiced simultaneously?
The Master: There is no contradiction. As for one who practices tantra, if he has no sexual desire, it is all right. If he has desire, then he is just the same as a common person.
Karl Ray: In other words, in the tantric practice one must also be detached from sexual desire?
The Master: Most definitely, yes. There must be no thoughts of sexual desire. If you have desire, you are just the same as a common person, and you will have children just the same as everyone else. That’s for certain!
Karl Ray: Can you have children without desire, without attachment?
The Master: You’d have to be a piece of wood! A piece of wood has no attachment.
Karl Ray: But a piece of wood doesn’t have children, does it?
The Master: To do the tantric practices, one must neither be a piece of wood nor have desire. It is really not easy. Because it is so difficult, it is extremely dangerous. But most people like it, and use it to cover up their own “inner conflicts.”
Karl Ray: That brings up the question of the teacher-disciple relationship. Can one practice Buddhism without a teacher or as the Indians say, a “guru?”
The Master: It takes a little longer.
Karl Ray: But it’s not impossible?
The Master: That depends on the root-nature of the individual.
Karl Ray: What do you think of the prospects for Buddhism in America?
The Master: Buddhism is like a seed. In Asia, it no longer exists. The seed has come to the West. Having come to the West, of course it will take root and grow. After growing large, it will eventually pass away in the West as well. Then it will go on from there to yet another world. This is one of the natural tendencies of the Buddhadharma. It may happen that in five hundred years or perhaps a thousand years—it’s not certain how long it will be—Buddhism may go to the moon.
Karl Ray: I was just going to ask, you said “world “ and not “another country.” That’s what you meant?
The Master: Yes, yes!
Karl Ray: I think I’ll let you off now.
The Master: You’ll liberate me? But I am liberating you! (Laughter)
Karl Ray: I thank you. The questions were stupid.
The Master: Were the questions stupid or were the answers stupid?
Karl Ray: The questions.
The Master: Stupidity and wisdom are basically the same. When you reverse stupidity, it becomes wisdom. It’s like the palm and the back of one’s hand. Turn it over, and then you’ve got it. If you are interested, feel free to make an appointment at any time to come and discuss things.
Karl Ray: Thank you. Maybe you can help me not be afraid of bitter practices?
The Master: That’s easy! To be continued
|
