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比丘恆實：
我們原說是從兩點講到四點，可是這些故事很有趣，而且也不會有第二個25週年紀念。我想現在或者可以問問題，特別是問麥米倫、朗尼，和那些看著法總成長的人，或者有些年輕人想補充或糾正什麼。想說話
，但沒機會的人，現在是機會了。
比丘尼恆持：
朗妮說這是她寫在紀念冊上的事情。本來我們打坐時，很多人都可以從頭頂上出來。有一次她做夢，就覺得有一點古怪，自己從頭後邊這裡出來了，然後到法界，到虛空
、太虛空啊......。她看到很多東西，瞭解很多。後來她越走越遠，越走越遠......，突然間發覺自己站在上人的手掌心上，上人跟她說：「妳可以跑，但是妳跑不出我的手掌心
。」
她說她留在法總及萬佛城修行的期間，有很多好處。從一開始到最後，她學了很多
，但是很困難很辛苦。所以很多時候她會打妄想，就想出去，去吃個冰淇淋啦，或者去做一些她想做的事。但是每一次有那樣思想的時候，上人就會知道，所以才會這樣跟她說：「妳可以跑，但是妳跑不了。」她說，「其實我今天坐在這裡，就證明我真的是跑不了！」
比丘恆實〈回答Sarah的問題〉：
如果修行算是苦，不修行是更苦。怎麼講？就說如果樂是賺多錢，有大權，也就是說爬到社會最高層；你肯定你會快樂嗎？不一定！有時候最富有的人最不快樂，不是說有錢就一定不快樂，不是這個意思；有的人是又有錢又快樂，不過很少。你看萬佛城的出家人，只有三衣缽具而己，窮得不得了！可是多少出家人是愁眉苦臉的呢？
比丘尼恆持：
僧團有種保護的性質，譬如這兩天女眾僧人都回來了，好大一群！但分支道場多半是女眾住，都只兩三個人，最多十一、二個，地方小，難免有磨擦，不容易啊！各有各
的個性，出家後還是人，有還沒斷的習氣，有很多可學的。但是僧團有種力量，譬如說，用《梵網經》上的羯磨法，聽了好像很可
怕，其實不是，那意思就是開會。上人在時，我們也都在分支道場，不在上人身邊，跟現在差不多；上人在萬佛城，我們在分支道場，但是上人的精神跟我們是同在的。
依我的經驗，上人現在色身不在，但精神在分支道場還是沒什麼兩樣。那時候我們在分支道場很多事自己得決定，要瞭解，有時上人不打電話來，不跟妳聯絡，妳自己面臨的事妳自己解決。我們就開會，如果有比丘尼不舒服，或有什麼境界、困難，或者不和，各種事情我們就開會，大家一起討論怎麼去幫助她。所以上人在的時候有很多事-因為上人是男眾，我們是女眾--他就跟我們說，「妳們自己去開會，看能不能解決。」
比丘尼恆雲〈比丘尼恆持英譯〉：
幾年前我教《梵網經菩薩戒》，那時在臺灣有位有名的法師--現在已經往生了-我就到他那兒去請些註解來做參考。可是當我到那個寺廟時，我非常訝異，因為那裡的人好像不知道有這回事；甚至我提起這位法師的名字，他們聽了都好像很陌生。當時這位法師還是非常有名氣的。
相相反的，上人入涅槃己六年，可是這幾年來，每一次紀念上人的涅槃法會都令人非常感動。前幾年沒有搭這個帳蓬，大家在外面頂著大熱天，拜佛、傳供，不是很舒服的地方，大家還是誠心地來了。這是什麼力量呢？
像慶祝萬佛城二十五週年，佈置得不是富麗堂皇；住宿方面有的也不是很舒服；吃的，雖然齋堂盡心準備最好的齋菜，可是吃時要排隊，得等。說來這一切都不是非常方便，非常享受的，大家為什麼還來呢？我想這就是法的力量把我們凝聚在一起！
世間上有幾種的道場？一般分四種：第一是有食無法；食衣住行非常豐富，可是沒有法。這種地方很容易迷惑一般人的眼目，可是不會長久。另一種是有法無食；有法，可是生活非常清苦，除非道心很堅固，不然很難繼續。還有一種是無食無法；沒食物，也沒法。這個最容易認識，所以留不住人。
那麼上人座下的道場呢，既有法又有食。個人從八三年到八八年這段時間，大部份在萬佛城，走過這段歷史。這段歷史給我的感受是什麼呢？就是慈悲跟智慧的歷史，在這裡有一位導師帶著我們。上人自己常常謙虛地說：「我是看門口的。」的確！上人真是看門口的，他教我們怎樣看住六根門口來修行！教我們在這個混濁的末法時代，不要被亮麗的外表迷惑，能有真正的選擇能力。所以在僧團方面，我覺得因為有善知識的力量、法的力量，讓我們的菩提心繼續保持下去。
我們知道上人的心量非常大，納諫如流
；上人常說：「有什麼話，有什麼不對，你們要告訴我。」那時我剛來，少不更事。上人那時常坐在這上面，就說：「你們這些人啊，都是沖著我來的；你們怎麼沒有好好照顧他們，讓他們走了？」就這樣子責備。
待續
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BHIKSHU HENG SURE:
We originally said that we would go from 2 to 4 pm, but
these stories are priceless and we won't have a 25th
anniversary more than once. I think there will be a chance
to ask questions and answers. Especially from Tom McMillan
here, Lorn and people who've seen the history of the
association from the beginning. Maybe some young people
would like to add something, correct something. This is a
good opportunity for anybody who would like to speak but did
not have a chance to tell a story.
LONI BAUR:
[answering a question] ... strange. So I went out the back
of mine in my dream and I went into the cosmos and I could
see all the livings beings doing that and the other and it
was kind of dramatic. I kept going farther, and farther, and
farther out and when I got to the end, I realized where I
was. I was actually sitting in the palm of Shr Fu's hand and
Shr Fu said to me in the dream, "You see, you can run, but
you can't get away. No matter how far you go, you are always
right here in the palm of my hand." And I think that I don't
even have to say that it's true, because look where I am
right now. Cultivation in the beginning, in the middle and
at the end of my stay here had a lot of rewards. But it was
also, sometimes, a lot of times, very difficult, very
bitter. And there are many times in my mind, I thought maybe
I'd rather be somewhere eating ice cream or doing something
else. And Shr Fu always knew that because I would get into
conversation with him and he would just basically say, "Ni
Pao; Ke Shi Ni Pao Bu Liao. (you can run, but you can't get
away.)" So that's where that came from.
BHIKSHU HENG SURE:
[answering a question from Sarah] I would say that
cultivating is suffering, but not cultivating is more
suffering. Take a look outside at how much suffering is
involved in having fun. What do you go through to get rich?
How much suffering is going on in Silicon Valley right now?
Look at the folks who are at the peak of their powers ...
intellectual, and cultural, who have been trained at the
best educational institutions, who get a pink slip and are
on the street. And if that does not pull the plug on
everything the world says is important and valuable, what
could be clearer? So, we heard earlier today that if you
climb to the top of the social ladder, if you have money to
buy anything you want, it doesn't guarantee a single moment
of peace of mind. Not that that's exclusive. You can be rich
and are happy. I am sure there are people in the world who
are both. But the very richest people are often the least
happiest people. So, if you open your eyes and take a look,
really look hard at the hearts and at the words, the sounds
... the people who are out there just surviving in the
market place. The monastery looks very different. Here, you
couldn't be poorer. I mean people own three robes and a
bowl, and yet I haven't seen a left-home person with a long
face and a sad heart.
BHlKSHUNI HENG CHIH: So, I answer you
with just two sentences. There's a lot to say. It's a very
good question. But from Dharma Master Sure's answer... from
looking at the alternative of not being in a Sangha, I'll
say a little bit about my experience among the nuns. These
two days, you have seen almost all the nuns come back, and
there were a hundred or more. We are very happy with each
other. But normally, there are very few here and everybody
is stationed at the branches. Shr Fu has 27 branch temples,
and largely, it is the nuns who staff them. And in a branch,
you might have two, three, or ten people, and there's a lot
elbow-rubbing, a lot that can be learned by living in close
contact together. And the way the Sangha handles that with
or without Shr Fu is to have meetings. In Sanskrit the
meetings are called the karmavachana and they can be very
stern meetings. But they are just meetings where you help
other people. Before Shr Fu left, I was often put in a
branch to help staff and even though Shr Fu was here and we
were there, his energy and spirit were there, and his
guidance was with us.
I didn't feel I was out at the branch,
and I didn't feel a difference there. Shr Fu's physical body
isn't here now, but he trained us very well, to, be able to
be with him or without him. So we have meetings. If somebody
is sick, if somebody is a little off, if somebody is angry,
if a couple of people have fought or a group of people are
not getting along, or there's a decision to make, or there's
a schedule to do, we meet together. I think it's a very
precious kind of system that the Sangha has. We meet
together and we try to decide. And I will tell you that even
when Shr Fu was here, because he was a monk, he would often
say to us, "You know a lot of things are not convenient for
me with the nuns, so you should meet together as a group and
come up with a decision, or try to help that person." He
would guide us often and almost always when he was around,
he wanted to know what happened in meetings and then he
would tell us what we did right and what we did wrong and
how we could improve it. But in general, I think that's my
answer. There are systems in the Sangha and that makes the
Sangha very strong. As long as we stay in harmony and use
that device of meeting, then we are okay.
BHIKSHUNI HENG YUN:
[English translation by Heng Chih] One time Heng Yun Shi was
in Taiwan and she was going to lecture on the precepts from
the Brahma Net Sutra, so she thought she would go to the
monastery of a very famous Dharma Master who had passed away
and try to get his commentary to use as one of the
references for preparing the lecture. But when she went
there, nobody knew of him. It had been his monastery and he
had lived there, but nobody seemed to know who he was. Even
though he had been famous, people had already forgotten
about him. They didn't have any regard for him. So she feels
that the place where we rely (this is the answer I believe
in part to Sarah's question), is on the strength of the
Dharma.
She spoke about four different situations
in monastic settings. One situation is that there is food to
eat, but there isn't any Dharma. You may be attracted to a
place like that because of the food, but you will not stay
there for long because there isn't any Dharma. In the second
situation, there is Dharma, but no food. In that kind of a
place, if you are a hardcore cultivator, you can take the
bitterness and the suffering of the hunger and the lack of
necessities, and you can stay. The third situation is where
there's neither food nor Dharma, and those are easily
recognizable, and nobody stays. And the fourth situation is
what Shr Fu gave us. There's Dharma and there's also
sustenance--food to eat.
My own feelings, coming in 1988 until now
and drawing near Shr Fu, I can put it in two words... a
combination of compassion and wisdom. At CTTB, Shr Fu had a
very magnanimous presence. He had the scope of his
inclusiveness. And one of the things he did was to tell us
that if he ever said anything wrong or ever did anything
wrong, we were welcome to correct him. I have to verify here
that Heng Yun Shr did do that. [Laughter] There was one time
he got up here and said, he was not happy with the way
people were being treated in the City, I don't know if this
was guests or new people but he would say, "They came here
all because of me and you people just drive them away."
~ To be continued
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