Ms. Yang from Free Times: What do we do given the quantum model of karma if we want to seriously talk about eradicating karma?

Doug Powers: Well, I will just give my limited view. When the Buddha was talking about eradicating karma, the Buddha very clearly said that practice involves eradicating the karma within your own construct of your life. That then begins to affect the karma of the universe. It has to be done by the effort of a human being, through the practice of a human being. We could talk about different methods of doing that. In other words, there are many methods for eradicating karma. We could bring forth the resolve of a Bodhisattva. To talk about a Bodhisattva brings in a very complex cosmology. However, this view is necessary in a sense because eradication of karma would be the effort of each individual in turning the karma of the world in different direction. We begin on a human level and bring a Bodhisattva level to it. But the effort still has to be ours.

Dharma Master Sure: Buddhism uses the method of repentance and reform to eradicate karma. The power of repentance and reform is very great. We have to be sincere in order for it to be efficacious. Most people do not use the sincere mind to repent and reform. It is said that living beings are afraid of the result but not the cause, while Bodhisattvas are afraid of the cause but not the result. This is similar to the scientific model.

Prof. Wong: How do we eradicate karma? The Shurangama Sutra says, "All marks are produced from the mind alone, the myriad phenomena in the universe are manifested from the mind alone." The Vajra Sutra says, "All the marks are illusory." Mr. Powers has shown by optics, that each one should take a look at his own mind. We have to understand that all our minds are just false phenomena, then karma would be eradicated. Dharma Master Yun said that with the karma we have accumulated over eons in the past, it is as if we were in a dark alley; everything is resolved once light shines on it. This belongs to the sudden enlightenment aspect. Of course we could use scientific terminology to explain sudden enlightenment so that everyone understands.

Doug: Dr. Wong showed me his book on science based on simplified Buddhist philosophy. He has a Ph.D. in physics. After he finishes speaking, I would recommend his whole series of books.

He has been working on it. I hope more people work on this. This is an area that very few people have worked on yet. I've asked the major neural biologist at UC Berkeley, "Have you done any real serious experimentation on the facts of meditation, on the neural-biological, neurological construct in life mode?" More serious scientific work needs to be done to begin to realize the connectedness that many of you seem to be talking about.

Dr. You: Cause and effect of karma takes the six causes and the four conditions as its fundamental order. Does quantum physics also talk about the six causes and the four conditions? For instance, when a ripened cause encounters certain sequential conditions, this amounts to a psychological phenomenon. There may be similarities between karmic retribution in Buddhism and quantum physics, but they should not be mixed up.  

Doug: This is the realm where very interesting discussion could occur. This is only the very beginning of a discussion, and now we are beginning to talk about some of the technical details. Buddhists have to talk about these in a way that physicists could understand them. The limitation right now that physicists have, as most of you who understand physics know, is that quantum physics is based on quantum mechanics, which is not a complete cosmology at all. It is based on the Copenhagen Agreement. What happened was the quantum physicists realized they have a bunch of paradoxes and problems using the quantum models. So they agreed in Copenhagen (the Copenhagen Agreement) to limit what quantum physics could do to a level that would be compatible with the mechanical deterministic model of physics. Every other issue would be not looked at because it creates so many problems. This new attempt to create a cosmology opens up all of these paradoxes to potential discussion, but it is at its very beginning stages.

Prof. Luo: Can scientists finally understand causation and chance? Are they the same thing?  

Doug: Basically Christianity has established six principles that can be accepted by scientists. Whether or not the Western scientists can accept the ideas of causation and chance is based on the logical question of causation. The whole basis of quantum physics and any kind of scientific description is basically a discussion of causation. It is one frame of reference or another. As far as chance is concerned, this is the big change where quantum physics is taking the Heisenberg view of quantum physics. I quote from again another section here, "Chance is an idea useful for dealing with a world probably unknown to us. But it has no rational place among the ultimate constituents of nature." From a Heisenberg view that is being developed by people who are working on a cosmology now, they believe there is no room for chance if you want to find a description of the cosmic effect of nature. And that is exactly the point that Buddhism would have made all along about science up until this point.

Wisdom Torch Journal: Theravadan and Tibetan Buddhism are more readily accepted by Westerners. On the contrary, traditional Chinese Buddhism is not so readily accepted when it is propagated in the West. Why is that?  

Dharma Master Sure: There are two sects of Theravada. The Thailand sect adheres strictly to the Vinaya rules and austerities, which most Americans find difficult to accept.

Both Theravadan and traditional Chinese Buddhism observe the precepts strictly. Transmission takes time and Americans will eventually accept them. Vipassana in Theravadan Buddhism is very popular. If you prefer just to sit in meditation, then you may just sit. It is closer to science. It also reduces stress. It is a hybrid of Buddhism. It has become very popular since the requirement on ethics and precepts is not as stringent. This form of Southern Theravada is more readily accepted. Tibetan Buddhism is intimately associated with Hollywood. Times Magazine published a cover story on the life of the Dalai Lama. When Americans hear about Tibetan Buddhism, are they willing to accept it? Do they understand it? That also takes time. It is to be hoped that it will be truly transmitted to America and not just superficially. An English rock n' roll singer wishes that Dalai Lama could hypnotize him. As such, the entertainment world and the religious world have become closer. This is scary.

Conclusion by Dharma Master Sure: Today we've have the opportunity to report on the challenges and prospects in propagating the Buddhadharma in the West. That included the history of traditional Chinese Buddhism in America, the challenges of setting up Buddhist education in the West, and how scientists in the West have gathered wisdom from the Buddhadharma. With the kindness and compassion of Buddhism, may the global village survive and all warfare subside. May we overcome all obstacles and join together in harmony.

To wrap up, I will tell you a story. I think most people have heard of Cardinal Yubin of China. He was from Manchuria, like the Venerable Master. After they had both become religious leaders, they met for the first time in Los Angeles in 1978. The Venerable Master said that Cardinal Yubin had been a cultivator in the past who returned to be a cardinal in this life. The Venerable Master invited him to the City of Ten Thousand Buddhas. When Cardinal Yubin arrived at the Hall of Ten Thousand Buddhas, before the huge image of the Thousand-Handed and Thousand-Eyed Guanshiyin Bodhisattva, the Venerable Master told him, "I suggest that you be a Buddhist among the Catholics, and I be a Catholic among the Buddhists. When two of the major religions of the world unite, there will be no more contention. What do you say?' The Cardinal thought it over, then slapped his thigh and said, "Let's do it!" He then made a half bow to Guanshiyin Bodhisattva, after which the two religious leaders worked together. The Venerable Master appointed Cardinal Yubin as the first Honorary Vice-President of the Institute of World Religions. Unfortunately, [Yubin] passed away soon after his spiritual transformation. If we adopt this same attitude in anticipating the future of Buddhism in the West, world peace would certainly prevail.  

Amitabha!       

~ The End